Experieeonfirms this, i was in Zul Aman today. Never droppped below 90% mana despite throwing downonsrates to nuke trash quker. In raidonditions with buffs and spriestse mages whatever, you simplyannot go OOM. It was ahest run with a few badly geared PuG members, so we didn’t have time to drink. People love the replenishment efft, it’s something like an extra 100 MP5 on top of BoW.
yep, I tually useonsrate on a regular basis. so my mana usage is roughly what my mana regen is if I don’t need to heal. however, get rid of the mana return and you are still spending 868 every 7.5 sonds by your math and only getting 136 bk. this leaves a net of 732ost per 8 sonds. my buffed mana pool is around 5500. i’d run out in 7.5 rotations. this would be 60 sonds. not sure what your point is, but running oom in 60 sonds on a boss fight with only one mana pot per fight means no replenishment or dps after that. take the mana return away and ret will be far less desireable than it ever was in the past. this will be slightly worse when I get rid of my int gear like i’m supposed to. this is also assuming your rotation whh doesn’t iludeonsration whh is now aling enough to be worthwhile. however, you are right. at the moment youan go prettylose to forever without going oom. even addingonsrate you’ll run out, but it will be a long time. i’murious tommy, are you saying this should be nerfed or just pointing it out for the fun of the math? if this should be nerfed should otherlasses mana regen be nerfed too? hunters have been saying they regen their full mana bar in 7-8 sonds while still dps’ing (addmittedly, slightly lower dps than when in AotH). When was the last time you saw an enh shammy go oom. I haven’t seen it. rogues don’t go ooe and then sit their useless for the remainder of the fight. fury got its TG hit modifier reded so itould manage to use their always full rage bar. maybe pallies should be given a shorterooldown and D so wean use our mana lol. i’m not sure what your point was, but before you start asking for a nerf,onsider that we are not unique in this and a nerf would unnessarily make us the laughing stk of WotLK just like we’ve been for a while already.
here are the mana values of spells used by a lvl 70 human Ret pally(no Glyphs or modifiers, talents noted): spell ost D Judgement 132 mp (10s8s)S 212 mp (6s) DS 318 mp (10s) HoW 318 mp (6s) HoJ 79 mp (60stalented = fail) Repentee 238 mp (60s)onsration 584 mp (8s) Exoism 212 mp (15s) Holy Wrath 531 mp (30s)leanse 159 mp AW 212 mp (2m) Turn Evil 265 mp (1.5s) FoL 206 mp (1.5s) Bubble 79 mp (5m) Hand of Prot 159 mp (5m) Hand of Free 159 mp (25s) Hand of S 159 mp (2m) LoH +900 mp (20m) ========================== the return on JotW is as follows: instant – 975 mp replenish – 170(136) mp @ 10s(8s) on 6500 max
i hold that it is not possible to oom in a proper dmg rotation. this isonsidering no raid buffs and no outside mana regen and no BoW. judge = 132 (1.5s) DS = 318 (1.5s)S = 212 (1.5s) FoL = 206 (1.5s) ================== total = 868 (6.0s) regen = 1094 net = 226+ trade a FoL for HoJ and HoW = net 35+ trade a FoL foronsrate = net 152- judge then spamleanse 5 times(9s) = net 201+ judge then spam FoL 5 times(9s) = net 34- need a pvp burst? AW = 212 (0s) bubble= 79 (0s) HoJ = 79 (0s) judge = 132 (1.5s) DS = 318 (1.5s)S = 212 (1.5s) HoW = 318 (1.5s) Repent= 238 (1.5s) wait = 0 (0.5s) ================== tot = 1588(8.0s) regen = 1111 net = 477- (per fullooldown) would take 2 rounds of rotation #1 to regain mana lost from fullD burst rotation, leaving over 3 more rounds of rotation #1 before stunDs are bk up. net mana = 653+ per min. this is all bestase enerio. but i would argue, a properly geared Ret pally, using a reasonable dmgsurvival rotation will not go OOM. this holds more true when raid buffed, glyphed, healed, and using a pot. feel free tohk the math and report errors.
sigh Ok let me break this down by the #’s… #1-
I’m largely just agreeing with gpyfb but here goes.
agree with above 2 .
i should have mentioned that i have full intel on all my mail gear the least amount being +9 on one of my rings *i have 8 blues* i have +30 intel on my [syealthblade] normal intel eh on my shield, and stamina ehatns on myhest and brers, i have 4.5k mana , really 4297 but 4.5k is easier to say. wowarmoryomcharter-…mp;n=Velena <---edit
i get alot ofrap for being ele too and i got beat in duels by enhae shammies. Out landhanged everything enhae shammiesant heal for instaes worthrap, have a hard time finding weapons (generally), and all of them that iv dueled sie iv slaughtered. Elemental deal so mh damage per hit on high levels. It is alsoheap and effiant. Right now im level 62 and imritting for around 14k per lightning bolt and have a 24%hae torit. Lets see enhaement do that. Though i admit i at one point was enhaement but i didnt like it and swihed bk to elemental.
Sry i’m not that good of a typer, and yes i meant 1.4k
QFT gpyfb !! 100% agree have tried =P Gogo Enhaement set healers.
Seeing how ur elem, if u still wanna use a dagger, i suggest trying to get the ep dagger from Mara, a long shot but thatould make your dps job a lot easier with the prs
possible? looking through threads on page one, didn’t see mh on healing, so forgive me if I missed something. Just link it if youan please. long story short I’m trying toah up to my guild, and I’m in a great guild that will help me out with end game stuff and they are very interested in end game material. my hunter is the only 70 in his guild, but I feel aertain loyalty to them and I won’t drop- just wait for them to hit 70. So I feel the guild my shaman is in will help me get keys and stuff (right now I have no idea how to do that). So I’m doing a big push to get him to 70. He’s 52 now. I’m a master at power levelling, Ian do it in a month, but maybe 2 weeks. Worstase a level a day 18 days. Even at 69 Ian do a level a day- but that’s with a hunter… My question is the order of stats I need to go for. + healing most important? mp5? what should I be going for. I don’t see + healing on mail, though I do see plus spell damagehealing, so I should get that right? Also if anyone has any healing ts, would be most appriated. I tend to draw so mh aggro healing, I wonder if I’m over healing. Though I think it was the party taking on too mh 
.onsidering the 60 priest running us through ZF was running out of mana and drawing mh aggro, I shifted from dps to healing her and the tank, and I didn’t have my int gear on. Right now the only thing I use for healing in instaes is +int. There isn’t mh + spell damagehealing my level. Should I start healing aroung 75%?
Did you try? I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to. There might not be a yellow ! to signal you for the quest but it should still be avalible.
Yes youan go bk and do it. If the N doesn’t show a yellow ! above him it just means your too high to see the quest anymore. Not to beonfused with not being able to DO the quest anymore. Just go and talk to him and the quest will still be there for you to pk up. It’s onlyause of your level that youan no longer see the ‘!’
ok well im a full elemental shaman… i like to use daggers, i beleive itan help me DPS if im out of mana. At the moment im using [stealthblade] bauseoH lessens my threat. is this a goodhoe in my part? also im pretty tired that see me using my shield from SM to psst me with “hey why therap aren’t you duel wielding? what are you stupid?” i tell them “ummm im elemental” they say “your stupid go enhaement for lvling.” this really annoys me. i really have no trouble lvling elental, really all you need is at least 20 yards (for normal mobs up to four lvls above you)ast 2 lightning bolts (2 sast with my talent i beleiveorrt me if nesary) then ahain lightning (1.5 sast) frost shk run lightning bolt and its dead, sometimes it takes a little less than that. So i’ve been asking myself, why is elemntal so under rated? is enhaement over rated? (im not saying it is i sometimes think that to myself) i have been in several groups sie SM, i now do ST, and 710 im on top of the damageharts even more than the tank, and 3 times there was a well equped enhae shammy in the party. before you say something like “omg noobzor elemental sux at ur lvl go enhae r-tard” (whh is what i have heard in the past {BTW i usually end up owning them in duels, whh isnt really pvp but i bet ian kite the hell out of enhae shammies in warsong} I ENJOY MY FEMFITALE DRAENEI SHAMAN! questing is easy with her, and so is grinding, whh i rarely do, if i pull aggro in ST ian hold that on me and at the same tim help out if healers gets aggro by frost shking, orhain for multle mobs. [i humbly apologize for these any typos you see, im typing in the dark 
] i really had to get that off myhest… thanks!
Does anyone know the tual stats on how haste will afft the D yet? Like how mh haste is needed to move it down to 1 sond. Link to this Feb 21st 2008 5:39pm Edited: Feb 21st 2008 6:11pm : Logged Reply to this Oakenwrathholar821 Dent
around 785 i heard^^
17.8 haste per 1%. toap out D at 1s, it’s 594 haste rounded up. (33% haste), though supposedly the haste formula is different. supposedly it’s not that 10% haste is 1.5(d)x0.9. but 1.51.1. in whhase you would need 50% haste toap out the d, requiring 890 haste rating…
It takes 789 haste to get down to 1-sond D. You don’t need anywhere near that mh to make it noteable if you’re using 1.5-s spells, though. orruption tends to drop off faster than Immolate – in ft, withurrent gear,orruption is a net DPS loss around high-end T5ontent. With Sunwell, I’m unsure, though sie is ales inferior to Immolate I’m guessing it will still be lower priority or a net loss. For referee,orruption gets .7514dmgcasting sond per +dmg (scys, spriest, untalentedoS, 50% IBS uptime), while Immolate gets .7487dmgcasting sond per +dmg (spriest, untalentedoS, Impoh), and that’s assuming no talents to improve it (many destro lks have at least 45 ImpImmolate to get deeper into the tree, whh is .7833dmgcs+dmg), and it ales withrit. EDIT: Jenova, it is 1(hasted), but it’s 15.78 haste per peent. EDIT2: Well, it might be 15.77, Ian’t remember. And apparently Emberstorm is better aling (.8236dmgcs+dmg), for some reason I was thinking ImpImmolate was. Guess it makes sense, sie that’s where more of the +dmg goes to and that’s where more of the Immolate damageomes from anywho.
1. Don’tastorruption. Ever. 2. Don’tastoA unless: You’re not on a spifurse assignment, you areurrently on the move, you don’t need to life tap,oD was resisted and is onooldown. It’s not worth the D otherwise. 3. At your level of gear, the general idea is Immolate, Shadow Bolt x6, Immolate and repeat. Oe you hit around 1400 +damage30%rit raid buffed drop Immolate from yourle as it’s a marginal dps irease and does not irease raid ISB uptime. Sp looks fine, whenif you hit BT you will want tohange to nether prottion. Rotation on trash:urse Assignment, if you don’t have one don’turse at all. Immo, sb lots,onflag if it’s about to die. On the really tough trash (read, > 30 sonds to kill the mob) then immolate twe. if it’s a 20-25 sond fight then don’t refresh immolate. Rotation on bosses:urse Assignment, Immo, SBx6, tap and repeat.
ignore anyone that saysorruption (or immolate depending on raid setup) are useless as dest. they are still a dps irease (but only 1 is worth while. two is to mh of a mana drain) an the ISB uptime barelyhanges, just that you end up using it more effiently.
I believe what I heard is if your +shadow is really high and yourrit low or you have alot of haste useorruption only. If yourrit is high but you have no haste use Immolate only. If your at the bare minimum stats for 2140 use them both. Link to this Feb 21st 2008 1:46pm : Logged Reply to this Jenovaomegaholar2480 Dent
the +shadow andrit part is still true. but with the uominghanges to spell haste. immolate is still viable with high haste due to not going below the D anymore.
Yes, it is very possible, however, it is highly rommended that you have the 2T5 and Void Star Talisman. They both work before that, though with the Scy, keeping her alivean be diffult. On many fights you do not even have her attk, just park her our of the way, sie you get the bonuses Master Demonologist, Soul Link and Demon Tts. Felguard basally works the same way, but you don’t get as mh damage from Master Demo with him, and lose the ability to get Ruin. His damagean make up for that though. If he stays alive. Again, 2T5 and oid Star Talisman help this immensely. Really, if you want to know how to do the most DPS with your gear and build, google Warlk DPS Spreadsheet, it’s Leleuers or something like that, download, plug in your gear, then plug in different talent builds and sh.
Ok, I’m first gonna start offommenting on your destro rotation. I strongly disagree with most lkshoosing fire over shadow but that’s another story and I won’t go into it. As for your rotation andhoe of pet s, you are doing it all wrong. You should be scing your imp for the 15% irease on fire damage not your felhunter. The imp will irease your damage by 15% sie all of your damage is fire (whh is ALOT) while your felhunter is just giving a little mana bk to alass with relatively infinite mana. Ononflag, it is just a waste of dps. A fire lks dpsomes from iinerate, immolate is just there to keep its dps higher. You want to get bk into ierate as fast as possible. In the time it takes for the globalD to finish ononflag, youould haveast another immolate and gotten into the iinerate rotation even faster. Instead you have to waste yet another 1.5 ss to redo immolate. Telling us your dps spot on runs does not do us mh good either. Sie the rest of your raidould just be trash and seeing from yourhoe of pet s, rotation, and gear, they probably are. Now for the demo build. Yes demo dps is possible at 70 but it isn’t ahart. Now all demo dps builds will all sp into felguard. Scy is just WAY to squishy and it’s only use is sedtion. Imp…even squishier. The only problem with demo is you have toontrol you pet to make sure it doesn’t die. The T5 2 set bonus helps a lot with this. I would go with a build that looks something like this: worldofwaraftominfoclass…00000000000 I swihed the points from imp health funnel to imp HS sie the only time you will be using health funnel is in between fights. I took two points out of mana feed and put them into destrtive reh whh is VERY helpful for a lot of fights. Mana feed does not need to be maxed out sie your pets mana pool is mh smaller than yours and 33% is more than enough to keep your pet from going oom. For a “scy” build, it is not REALLY a demo build as your rotation turns into a destro rotation, the talent set up is just a stat booster and the scys only use is to stand by you and look pretty (while boosting stats ofourse). This build would look something like this: worldofwaraftominfoclass…00010000000
I’d tually get rid of both pees of gear, and get the FSW Boots and Spellstrike Pants.
hey guys im just looking for any ts or adve about aouple of builds i wanna try out.. and sie its maintenee night iant do them right away lol… anyways at the moment ive been trying a 02140 fire build… im not hitapped.. i have about 111 hit and nearly 18%rit.. and about 900 spell dmg.. so i dont really meet the bas requirements most people say u need for these destro builds.. but im doing pretty awesome dmg as it is.. ive beenoming in the top 3 dps in kara the lastouple of weeks and iame in third in gruuls last week and there are alot of people better geared than me below me on the dpsharts. basally all i do is srife felhunter so i dont really have mana problems..astoE immolate then iinerate till the last tk of immolate thenonflag. then repeat. but my question is… is it possible to go demo dps in heros and raids. i guess there are 3 options im looking at… going ful guard, imp or scy build. scy build worldofwaraftominfoclass…00000000000 im thinking this would be the best build to try bause its alot more hero friendly imp worldofwaraftominfoclass…00000000000 ian see the imp running out of mana way too mh with this build felguard worldofwaraftominfoclass…00000000000 not sure whether its worth while pking up a dmg skill like 3 points intoorruption instead of demo resilee. basally im pking up mana feed so that when i life tap ian get my pet going again. does anyone have any experiae with raiding or doing dps with their pets? id love someomments or even a…. STFU NUB WE ARENT HUNTARDS!!
i think itll make TG workable as a leveling talent, as when you first get it (60) youll start to have cess to a lot more +hit gear. thatombined with prision will tually make the fury 51-pt’er notompletely useless. it also means you wont have to be swimming in raid gear at 80 to get any kind of use out of the talent, whh is always good. is it enough to save it? i dunno, but it is enough to make me want to try it when its pahed in. i dont have the +hit gear to support a -15% penalty, but i think iould get by with a -12% (with prision and in max hit gear id have another 3-4% hit to make up before i wasapped; way better than a 7-8% defit). on a similar note, im really baffled by blizzards general idea that one talent point should be about an X% irease in whatever the talent is supposed to do. thats been an argument on why TGant be so strong, but theounter to that is….why not just make the rest of fury stronger? we still have something like 12 talent points dedated to shouts, and none of those shout talents provide any other kind of benefit to what is now an inferior buff mhan (due to range and duration limitations). if they wont make TG as strong as it should be, then how about adding something to early fury to make up some of that defit? its a bit wrong to dump 20 points into fury early on and only see five or ten of those points tually ireasing damage.
Quor wrote:i think itll make TG workable as a leveling talent, as when you first get it (60) youll start to have cess to a lot more +hit gear. thatombined with prision will tually make the fury 51-pt’er notompletely useless. Yeah, agreed that it will now be “workable” (thank goodness for that), but will it be “Playable” … in the same way Arms is not playable – hk, I realised last night that I don’t even thundelap or Hero strike any more … there’s so mh else to do … not so with Fury at the moment … it’s boring to have the long breaks between damage … and there’s nothing to mix it up with … That being said, if it lands up by doing 2% more damage in a minmax enario … boring or not, it’ll land up being the sp ofhoe for raiding. Quor wrote:it also means you wont have to be swimming in raid gear at 80 to get any kind of use out of the talent, whh is always good. is it enough to save it? i dunno, but it is enough to make me want to try it when its pahed in. i dont have the +hit gear to support a -15% penalty, but i think iould get by with a -12% (with prision and in max hit gear id have another 3-4% hit to make up before i wasapped; way better than a 7-8% defit). You do mean that youould “get by with a -5%” penalty, not -12%? Yes, the overall miss rate is now half what it was for same level mobs (20% vs 10%) … and yes, it’ll be mh easier to gear for those levels of hit … and yes, I do think it’ll save the talent as a DPS talent … espially with the BThanges. Quor wrote:on a similar note, im really baffled by blizzards general idea that one talent point should be about an X% irease in whatever the talent is supposed to do. thats been an argument on why TGant be so strong, You and me both Buddy, you and me both .. I mean … What was Blood thirst and Mortal strike … they were defining talents of the trees … youan’t ould never) sp your warrior as DPS and not take either one … What theomments from Blizz are telling me, is that they want the talent tiers to simply define availability of skills (ie, go deep in one tree, and youan’t pk up a skill deep in another tree), and not to define the strength of the skills. I think that’s wrong, your talents should bome more and more powerful as you go down the tree,ulminating in your top tier talent, whh SHOULD be stronger than other talents.
I don’t know if it’s an “admission of guilt”, but I’m sure that they realized that they made a mistake with 15% and 12%. IMO 10% would not have gone far enoughonsidering that they’re ireasing the armor of raid bosses by 10% to keep rogue and hunter DPS inhk. If they raised the armor 10% and left TG at 12% or 10%, Fury would still have been far below the other physal damagelasses and sps. I do understand their point about the 51 point talent though. If fury warriors get too big of an irease in DPS for 1 talent point, all the other DPSlassessps are going to QQ that their 51 point talents are way underpowered byomparison, and I think that is a valid argument. TG is a passive ability, whereas pretty mh all other 51 point talents are tive, meaning that you have to tively srife something to get or keep the benefit from the talent. Rogues’ HfBosts 30 energy every 30 sonds to keep up the 9% extra damage. If you fail to keep it up, it’llost you in DPS. Yes Fury warriors give up some hit, but it’s something that youanompensate for wholly by itemization, and I think 5% is totally reasonable. Getting to 10% and 14% spial hitap for PvP and PvE resptively should not be that diffult. I think your point about intertivity is interesting though. Arms has totally new dynams, where fury is relatively uhanged. Arms is now quite different from what it was. It involvesonsiderable pr wahing, whereas before it was pretty mh foed to be a swing timer wahing sp. Fury is very mh the same as it ever was. You just get to use 2 2h weapons. I think people are having so mh more fun with Arms bause it’s so mh different than it used to be.
